Here we discuss a variety of issues in light of scripture and experience
This episode is part of my podcast series DEAR ATHEIST… If you prefer, LISTEN NOW. ***** You have a problem. You have an addiction. The thing you crave so much has blinded you to what you need. You crave to know. You feed on much knowledge, but are never content, because the more you know, the less you […]
Dear Atheist… — Grace and Truth
Thanks for sharing!
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You are welcome.
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unsurprisingly, there is no truth in this nonsense. it is the typical Christian set of falsehoods trying to scare people into agreeing with them.
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Everyone has their different perspectives. We are not trying to scare anyone.
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You are quite correct, everyone does have their different persepctives, most especially Christians who can’t agree on the most basic things in their religion.
Your religion is based on the threat of eternal punishment from your god. Then you try to convince yourself that everyone “really” agrees with you. When an atheist shows up, we show that you simply lie. This nonsense: “Yes, admit the truth to yourself. You are not an atheist. Not when you are searching for God. It might be shameful to realise that you have believed all along… You just don’t know WHO you believe in. You don’t know WHO to trust.” is hilarious. Yep, we are atheists, and trying to pretend we don’t exist is rather sweet.
Your religion can’t handle the existence of one happy atheist, like me. When we point out that your religion has nothing to do with love, only blind obedience based on fear, you get upset.
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Blind obedience based on fear? You understand that we humans have freewill, and even the bible cites instances of believers who were disobedient from time to time. There is no compulsion in this, to you yours, and to me mine. Maybe the stereotypical idea of God has people confusing God for what God is not. Have a great day
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CCR, do read your bible. I have. It has little if anything about free will. It has much about this god constantly interfering in human choices, controlling minds so it has an excuse to commit genocide, killing children for the actions of their parents, and both JC and Paul state that this god has already chosen who it will allow to accept it, and then it damns the rest for no fault of their own, Matthew 13, John 15, Romans 9.
I love your term “stereotypical idea of God”. You mean the one presented in the bible? It’s always great fun to see Christians try to redefine their god when it doesn’t fit their version.
There is repeated compulsion.
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You are funny. You clearly do not understand the context of the things of which you speak
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of course, CCR can’t show his claim to be true at all. Do explain this “context” you claim I am not understanding.
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you have all of the time in the world to support your claims by writing them down here. You are indeed running out of excuses.
“You are funny. You clearly do not understand the context of the things of which you speak”
and
“Maybe the stereotypical idea of God has people confusing God for what God is not.”
still waiting for you to show how.
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I am actually a lot busier than you think. I would like for you to ask me specific questions. Simply making comments where I do not know what specifically you need clarity on, does not help either of us. What specific questions do you have about God.
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I already know about the Christian god, and all of its versions, CCR.
I’ve asked you to support your claims. Start with this one
“You clearly do not understand the context of the things of which you speak”
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I made a comment about 45 mins ago, not sure if you have seen that, but go and look at that comment and we can go from there.
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Here you go (in case you missed it):
There is no such thing as blind obedience in our line of faith. Every human being has freewill. We either choose God or we do not. God is light, so the absence of God is darkness. God is not threatening to put people in hell if they do not choose him, God would simply leave them alone. But remember, God is light, and the absence of God is darkness. When God leaves (which is in line with respecting their choice), the light leaves and the darkness arrives. Hell is separation from God, and any separation from God is torment, because God is peace. When people use their freewill to reject God, they are choosing separation from him, which is torment. A good analogy here is health. We all can decide to choose health, or we can decide not to choose it. If we decide not to do the right things to become healthy, we are choosing to not be in good health. Health respects our choices and it can leave, leaving the person and their poor choices with poor health. God is the same way, it comes down to choice. There is also a lot of love that God gives to us. The fact that God is giving us a chance to fellowship with him is a sign of love, because even in our weakness, he still loves us. He loves us no matter what. An atheist can be happy, no doubt about that, because it comes down to choice. Just like health, there are a lot of people smoking and are happy with that choice. You get the drift. I am not saying atheists cannot be happy or that they should not be happy. I wish everyone the best obviously. We are not trying to “force” our religion on you, it is a choice. Remember, God is not threatening to put you in hell, he is simply respecting the choice of people who choose to not be in his presence. The absence of God is hell because God is light.
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Now that I have a quick 5 minutes break to spare, I can get to this comment. First and foremost, this is not a question about God, it is a comment. You have already made a decision and taken a stand. So starting from the perspective that you do not like God, I would respond from that stand. There is no such thing as blind obedience in our line of faith. Every human being has freewill. We either choose God or we do not. God is light, so the absence of God is darkness. God is not threatening to put people in hell if they do not choose him, God would simply leave them alone. But remember, God is light, and the absence of God is darkness. When God leaves (which is in line with respecting their choice), the light leaves and the darkness arrives. Hell is separation from God, and any separation from God is torment, because God is peace. When people use their freewill to reject God, they are choosing separation from him, which is torment. A good analogy here is health. We all can decide to choose health, or we can decide not to choose it. If we decide not to do the right things to become healthy, we are choosing to not be in good health. Health respects our choices and it can leave, leaving the person and their poor choices with poor health. God is the same way, it comes down to choice. There is also a lot of love that God gives to us. The fact that God is giving us a chance to fellowship with him is a sign of love, because even in our weakness, he still loves us. He loves us no matter what. An atheist can be happy, no doubt about that, because it comes down to choice. Just like health, there are a lot of people smoking and are happy with that choice. You get the drift. I am not saying atheists cannot be happy or that they should not be happy. I wish everyone the best obviously. We are not trying to “force” our religion on you, it is a choice. Remember, God is not threatening to put you in hell, he is simply respecting the choice of people who choose to not be in his presence. The absence of God is hell because God is light.
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Sigh. Paragraphs are your friend. And still unable to show that I don’t understand the “context” as you claimed.
Christians have many versions of their god. You all make it up in your own images. Some versions aern’t bad, some are no more than a whiny 3 year old. Since none of them are real, there is nothing to like or dislike other than as a fictional character.
Per your very own bible, there is no free will. As soon as this god cursed everyone for the actions of two, free will ended. You also have the problem that both Jesus and Paul also stated there is no free will, Matthew 13 and Romans 9. There is only blind obedience in Chrsitianity, if you don’t, you are damned to eternal torture. Your bible is full of nonsense that one should never question, repeating that ignorance is “wisdom”.
Alas, this god doesn’t “leave people alone”, that’s quite a lie and your bible shows that with its claims of magic floods, magic plagues, etc. Your god is anything but “light” or “good”. This petty creature has no problem committing genocide and killing children.
As always, Christians also can’t agree on what hell is. You choose the “sepearation” is hell nonsense, others choose the eternal fire nonsense. Right now, I’ve long ignored your god and gee, no torment at all. You fail again.
Your nonsene about good health being able to be chosen will be quite a surprise to people who get cancers, who have genetic diseases, who catch viruses, etc. Your analogy fails.
No evidence of love having anything to do with your god. Genocide isn’t love. And since not one Christian sect can agree with another about how to “fellowship” with this god, this god is really incompetent.
Oh so atheists can be happy, but then you claim that any separation from this god should cause “torment”. Funny how it doesn’t and that is jut the same sad impotent threats you use to try to convince people to agree with you. You have indeed tried to claim that atheists cannot be happen and should not be happy. Reality causes you to back off your nonsense since your false claim isn’t being accepted.
And gee, here in the US, in various African countries, Christians are indeed trying to force their ignorance and hate into law. We get to see that from the need for Christians to attack people who aren’t like them, making them criminals.
Right in your bible your god threatens to put people in hell. Why do you try to lie do me, CCR? Your god really hates liars.
“5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— 6 since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from[b] the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.” – 2 Thessalonians 1
“7 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. 48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” – Matthew 13
“4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked 8 (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who indulge[e] in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.” 2 Peter 2
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What sort of nations did God conduct a genocide on? I hope you know that those nations were pagan nations that killed some of their own children as sacrifice (ending young lives by sacrificing them to idols), they did not stop there, they got other neighbouring nations to join them as well. If they were not stopped, more innocent lives would be lost. As per your comments on Roman 9: you need to see this article: https://israeliteindeed.wordpress.com/calvinism/understanding-romans-9-without-the-calvinist-spin/
It might help you shed more light.
I do not currently have the time to go through all of the things you have typed out (which is a whole lot), but I will once I get the chance. For the remainder of this conversation, let’s keep insulting words out of the picture. I see potential for a good conversation here, and I am willing to have this conversation. However, without proper language, we would be selling this whole thing cheap.
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nice to see a Christian be an apologist for genocide. There is no evidence for child sacrifice, and gee, your god has no problem with killing kids per your own bible, so your indignation is rather amusing.
As always, I get to see Christians insist that only their “interpretation” is the right one, and none of you can show you are right. That none of you can also do what Jesus promised makes you all appear to be frauds.
And yet still nothing from you to show how I’ve not understood the context.
Unsuprisingly, you are setting up your next excuse. You’ve had no problem with how I’ve written so far, so your whine that I now don’t have “proper language” is bogus.
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oh and that link is just precious. I do love the lie that the pharaoh “hardened himself”. sorry, dear, I’ve read Exodus and that is not what it says.
It’s even better when it mentions Jeremiah 18 which shows this god fails and has to correct what it does. “3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was working at his wheel. 4 The vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter’s hand, and he reworked it into another vessel, as seemed good to him.
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 6 Can I not do with you, O house of Israel, just as this potter has done? says the Lord. Just like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.”
It’s also good to see that God admits it does evil. “Thus says the Lord: Look, I am a potter shaping evil against you and devising a plan against you. Turn now, all of you from your evil way, and amend your ways and your doings.” Jeremiah 18
” Esau was not “hated” by God–either as a man or a nation–due to some unchangeable “election to damnation” before time began.”
funny how your god says otherwise. ” 22 The children struggled together within her; and she said, “If it is to be this way, why do I live?” So she went to inquire of the Lord. 23 And the Lord said to her,
“Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples born of you shall be divided;
the one shall be stronger than the other,
the elder shall serve the younger.””
no choice, just what your god makes happen. Prophecy removes free will too.
and right here, th eauthor destroys free will “However, God DID choose (elect) one nation through whom to bring the Savior into the world (this had nothing to do with personal salvation.) ”
any time this god interferes with humans, free will is abrogated.
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We can sit here and debate God all day. I have an inkling that it would not make a difference in your ideologies. You do not have an open mind on these issues. Your mind is made up, and so is mine. If I keep responding to you, I am only letting you use my platform to promote your ideas. Bye and best of luck.
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Christ-centered ruminations 
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